We Missed Yinz!

We come back for Season 3 with a real reset: Crystal reclaims her name, we ditch video, and we build a setup that lets us record anywhere without the extra noise. A highway billboard pulls us into a Pennsylvania true crime case where the “facts” change depending on who’s framing them, and we end by reminding you to question every neat narrative. 

• Crystal dropping the stage name and why it stuck 
• Moving from video podcasting to audio-only recording 
• Why other hosts ask better questions than we do 
• Shouting out Recess Kings and the value of a different dynamic 
• Plans for more local guests and an old timer story segment 
• Recent comedy shows, rooms we love, and venues worth visiting 
• New York City, Hoboken, and the start of a pizza hunt 
• ADHD hobby hopping from sourdough to crochet to audiobooks 
• CounterClock as the first true crime obsession 
• Patty Rorrer, Judges for Justice, and how storytelling shapes belief 
• Chain of custody, missing testing, and why incentives can distort justice 
• Wheel of Wisdom riffing to close it out 

Shoutouts to The Whiskey Cellar in NYC, Quality Pizza in Hoboken, NJ, Aura Kitchen & Bar in NYC, and JudgesforJustice.org 

Tell me your town and tell me your pizza.

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Transcript

Back In The Kitchen Studio

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Land dance clicker thunder roll scott and crystal on patrol back road twist the moon hangs low Sasquatch tracks where the rivers flow Mike in hand laughs hit the air UFOs flag We're here live from the kitchen that killed it trash studios aka the Hood One Stop Marriage Shop the Broke Down Palace the That's it that's it that's all the name is not it the soup kitchen for unhoused cats Yeah the soup kitchen Little Soups is what the name of it is Lil Soups is what we call it Um no this is season three of the Gilded Trash podcast back in better than ever uh if I could replace water with any liquid what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Milk Crody but that's not this part of this No I know I just wanted to say that I'm Scott and if I could replace water with anything it would be milk. Oh speaking of hi up Scott, hi, I'm Crystal.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Oh yeah Yeah so um we got rid of Alana I fired her um it was a long tough decision Yeah she was causing too much ruckus I talked to HR and they immediately got rid of her she's gone she's out the door crystal's here a lot uh can't say your own name right and that is your middle name just to be fair like you didn't make this up out of the blue nobody like I've never seen someone's middle name cause so much confusion so much confusion if I just started going by Eugene people would be like whatever Gene Do you know what I mean right exactly so it's Alana A-L-A-N-N-A.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Which no human being on earth can say correctly none to read it and say it nobody you hear and you even say you're like Alana like banana and people the concept eludes people it does they say Alana it's mostly like come in Atlanta Atlanta Atlanta Atlanta so yeah it just it was going to be my stage name and I don't need it I am who I am um you know last year in September I had a TikTok beef where they exposed my real life so now expose those two worlds have now merged like people that we work with know we have a podcast it's not a secret they know you do stand up that's not a secret right they could go find they could go find it if they really want it some people have yeah it only shows you the only one person has so that tells me that nobody wants to nobody cares nobody cares okay no I that's fine that's how I want it but I'm just saying like it's not some big reveal like to like that all blew up into right so another thing you'll notice aside from the name change again Crystal Scott and Crystal that's who we are that's who we've been for 17 years I just had to make it difficult for the last two with something weird. So that's done um but now we have to introduce into an entire group of people that started calling you so during that time that was also Scott's like two years of coming up on the comedy scene. So as we were meeting new people I was introducing myself as Alana and that's my that was my stage name when I did open mics it was um so a lot of people from Pittsburgh and a lot of people from Altoona I introduced myself as Alana and then I like a couple weeks ago I was just like eff it I'm reclaiming my name so I've reclaimed Crystal on socials and taking it back in a in a harsh way is crystal MF and Reed if anybody cares to to know. But I was like damn it I'm reclaiming my name I'm taking it back.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Yeah but it's just funny though it's just what's in a name really it goes back to the whole thing what's in a name but no it was interesting because like I said there's still a bunch of comedians and stuff that say that so we'll cross those brains but it's easier to get people to call you crystal first off it's way easier to say you can spell it a hundred different ways exactly it's not like Atlanta where you can say it but you can only say it one way.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Right and nobody mistakes it nobody's like Christel Christ it what it Christel except for in the 90s gosh darn it I got called Christal all the time and I hated it.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Because of rap songs yes yeah yes nobody drinks that anymore I mean they probably do nobody raps about it certainly yeah they might still be drinking it I'm sure they probably are but no they've moved on to other ones bigger and better bigger and better it's always the latest and greatest when it comes to and I couldn't tell you what the name of it is because I don't drink that stuff it eluded me you feel like you should know I mean there's a hundred but I'm just saying there's more than there's a bunch of there's a few.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Moving on so that was the one big thing the other big change that you guys will notice so um actually the theme song for Guild of Trash season two is c is sticking um but I'm gonna have to re-record it with crystal in the name so it might be that'll be fun it might might make for a few more fun rhymes.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah.

Why Video Podcasting Had To Go

SPEAKER_02 7:33

What rhymes with Crystal pistol that's a whole other episode let's keep that about it. Yeah but no well crystal but it'll be crystal and Scott so they'll just change the framing of it too well maybe not maybe I I wrote those lyrics. I know so maybe it'll be Scott and Crystal pulling up on you with a pistol down in Bristol, Virginia motherfuckers But the biggest change of all because Crystal has always been my name so my friends who listen to the podcast who've known me forever and my sister and whoever else who tend to listen in every once in a while my brother in law who pretends he doesn't listen but I think he secretly does um all of those people have always known me as Crystal but we are not filming anymore. We're not filming the podcast we're recording it.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Nobody watches these things anyhow.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

No and it just became such a big thing and then I had to do hair makeup and I've literally if you go back through the lifetime of Gilded Trash I'm a completely different person today than I was back then and it gives me anxiety like it's just one more layer and it's also more work that we have to do.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

And by me I mean I mean bibble I mean you well yeah that's the thing is the editing then becomes a nightmare because there's so much to the editing with the visual actually got a lot going on. So it's easier to make an audio file and then create clips as needed.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

And we'll that'll be getting better too because we are going to make a couple of upgrades on like the audio only recording equipment so that'll be good.

SPEAKER_05 9:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

But here's my thing about it is like the one who you making the video for the one weirdo out there that watches podcasts. Because what even if you watch it on YouTube, what do you do? You're not watching turn it on you do other stuff. It's a podcast.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Exactly it's to listen to I watch obsessively because I'm studying facial patterns you may look if they're like let me pull it up here.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Like on Joe Ruggle he's like Jamie pull this up and then they'll show you but it's not essential to the listening at all. It's not those guys you know what I mean like the percent like I said the percentage of people that are like watching it watching it is so small.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Which and actually that's a great segue conversation into what's totally sold me on this totally sold me on this was a podcast you have done recently.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah. It was called The Recess Kings John Saxton and um oh you gotta cut this out because now I can't remember his goddamn last name. I know and I don't know his name at all so yeah James Bradley I knew his name was James I just couldn't think of yeah let's just go back into that no let's leave that thing there it's funny okay so I don't care that I didn't sorry James Bradley sorry that I didn't remember your last name I knew it was something like that but I was thinking Bradley might be someone's last name. I don't social media I mean like I might look here and there but like I'm not really following you so I'm not gonna see your name pop up a bunch because I don't really look at it for anybody.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

We know comics names because they say them every time they're on stage and I and I've only seen him a couple times because he's primarily in the state college area so which I do enjoy his stand up it's unique. Oh I told him he reminds me of he he reminds me of like Lenny Bruce yes oh dude so not so much like his style of comedy because uh you know that's a different thing but it's his like mannerisms and it's it's the way that he talks about things not what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

But yeah no I agree I've said that before yeah I really like it he didn't know who that was when I told him so he was gonna check him out. Dude yeah and if any of you don't out there know who Lenny Bruce is go check it out. It's an acquired taste I think so because it's old stand up which is different than what people do today. We're talking about the guy that made the genre.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Nobody was saying things like him before he was pushing the envelope as far as like what you could say First Amendment stuff. He was arrested how many times for cussing or what and if you read it today it's tame by today's standard. Absolutely they'd have murdered Eddie Murphy in the streets in 1954 if he was doing like Lenny bruises or you know what I mean like it they would have hung him up.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

And we learn through the so the marvelous Mrs. Mazel care like characterized him. So it wasn't really him and made him way hotter in real life than he was or in the show than he was in per in real life. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

But um it wasn't an accurate physical portray.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Correct. Right because you could see why he had an allure in the show but then you look at the pictures and you're like in real life he look has a a tougher look a more he looks like a Right he looks like a New Yorker of like what you picture like a kind of a bad boy kind of guy like in the 1950s or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Exactly he looks you know he's like hey but like gonna get you the show gave him like a John Mayer type swag. Yeah he did yeah that's what I'm saying like the show was well of course Mrs. Mazel is not historically accurate.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Correct it's historical fiction however the reason why I'm even bringing that up is because they have the the you could really get underground recordings back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Absolutely it's absolutely historical fiction. It's no different than watching like say the Gilded Age these stories are not they're not act they're nobody's story. Right. They're an amalgamation of stories of the time of the people like it's a cre it's fiction. That's exactly historical fiction. And they took real places real times real facts real things that were going on but the characters that you're watching were not real.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Exactly right and even some of the themes in the show like when they went up to like the Cascades or wherever they came the cat skills that was a thing. That's a real thing obviously depicted in um dirty dancing uh yeah I've talked about this before because my dad worked on some of the properties up there during his roofing days.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

And comedy the Borspel yes yes it was a big thing because well a lot of the comedy and Jewish history of New York go a lot hand in hand. Yes because uh a lot of those people there was like these you know huge like complexes I don't know what you call like retreats for like Jewish people and the a lot of the comedians from New York City Right they were resorts.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

I mean they were essentially like resorts but resorts back then on the East Coast were a little more tame it seemed like they were they were like family campgrounds without the RVs.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Right for rich people they're you had a cabin but it was all in this thing but they did bingo and watch dirty dancing we figure it out. Yeah absolutely but yeah but comedy was tied into that absolute comedy was a huge part of that that they don't explore in dirty dancing or do they do they have a comic in dirty dancing at any point I just thought maybe like a passing scene.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

The MC tries and I think they do one of those take my wife please moments Benny Goodman or Benny Youngman Benny Youngman yeah Benny Youngman Take My Wife please yeah something like that in if I remember correctly but I could be mashing up seven different movies.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Right but those those are the kind of people that went up there it was like New York City comedy at the Borsch belt and upstate New York yes and those that was all a very big part of the early beginnings of comedy stand-up comedy.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Yeah absolutely um but so getting back to podcasting um so recess kings I hadn't listened to it before full disclosure I don't listen to a lot of podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

That's fair a lot of people don't I mean here's the thing is like just think about this and then we'll get right back to this but if you think about it from the aspect of look at all the people that you enjoy to listen to and follow. Yeah it would be impossible to absorb all of their content all of the time so you have to pick and choose your bat you just can't get to it all.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Right there's no way and especially doing other things in life we both have full time jobs and we do our own podcast. Right. I don't even listen to that. Right and like our job doesn't warrant listening to something like you sometimes you can but depending on the content of the podcast you can't always listen mindlessly too like I've found that I cannot listen to Sean Ryan while I'm working. Why would you want to?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Right because I want to like you want to watch and absorb and listen and take it in. Exactly you're paying attention it's not say a Theo Vaughn where you can kind of come and go because it's well Joe Rogan more is in-depth discussion. Some yeah whereas Theo's more I'm saying those kind of podcasts it's not one solid theme. Like if Joe has a guest on there a lot of times he's there they're there to talk about the specific thing that they do. Unless it's a comedian then they talk about all kinds of things but he'll bring if it's an expert on something they're gonna talk about that the entire time that will be the line of thought and you pay attention but like a comedy podcast you kind of come and go you can pick it up here and there.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

It's yeah and so um like with Recess Kings I was really happy to hear you on a different podcast because let's be honest you and I have been together for a long time I know all your stories um right it's difficult for somebody to ask come at it from a curious perspective to tell you right like they would ask questions that you're never gonna ask just because you already know not and not only that I'm I'm not gonna probe on certain things just to get podcast content because we don't have like an agenda as far as our backstory goes. Right. Like our backstory just is what it is and when people question it or bring it up we're happy to conversate on that but there's just no so your backstory is key to so many things including you being a comic that I'm glad that you got to share that story with some folks who were truly interested and raised some really great questions.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Well it was just fun to get a different dynamic. Yeah just to have you know what I mean like I I mean John Sax and I know a little bit you know I'm better than James but like John and I I wouldn't say that we know each other well we know each other very much in passing we always say hello it's very uh you know what I mean it's niceties we've done shows together but it's not like we've ever sat down and had a two, three hour conversation.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

You know what I mean? Like we know each other but we don't know each other. I'm putting quotes up in that regard. So it that was a good opportunity to get to know him more. Yeah because it's like again when do we have we see these people it's a hey how you doing it's a what's going on in your life oh that's great that's wonderful. We exchange niceties and we are on to other stuff because it's always at a show it's always at a mic business. It's business yeah so we're not just standing around bullshitting um so that was uh exactly what it was it was an opportunity to get to the you know yeah but it's dig in a little deeper a great episode so go it was a lot of fun Reese has Kings uh Scott Reed is the guest and but go check out their podcast because it's a really good podcast yeah these guys are great I think I love those two together. Yeah John and James together it's like they're not alike I wouldn't say like they're not the same person or anything at all but their dynamic works well together. It's like they have the it's a good dynamic. It is and they have great podcast voices.

Local Guests And Old Timer Stories

SPEAKER_02 20:41

They do oh my gosh and that was the other thing is Scott has a great voice um when my voice isn't scratchy I have a decent voice so it just feels better hearing them and finding out about their setup like I feel like I can comfortably just go back into audio recording and the content is going to be good because that layer of necessity goes away.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

I had people reach out to me and tell me that was one of the most interesting podcasts that they've listened to and people that listen to podcasts they said it when you're able to listen to a whole episode and not get irritated or whatever and this the train of thought the pace yeah I had a more than one person tell me that they really thought it was just really good like the questions, the answers, the flow, the you know what I mean it was just a great episode. Props to those guys because like it was sweet but their setup was so easy that's what inspired this whole thing. That's what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Yeah because we want to be able to just pick up and take this setup wherever and get other people in the room and talk as well like we want to do this um we want to bring more locals to the show. We are definitely bringing Frank George from uh all the wrong moves on.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Let me just say that's part of the other reason for this is because we've reached out to a lot of people before but it's a lot to get somebody to come over to your house to get to do this whole thing. If we can just take this on the go and do this anywhere, then we're gonna have a lot more opportunity to talk to other people. Engage.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah absolutely 100% and and just being able to promote all the amazing people business owners we've met over the past couple years or just business owners in Johnstown where we absolutely love whatever usually it's food of course but but even not just here Johnstown Altoona Central to west to Midwest Pennsylvania Maryland.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Maryland but our focus is primary if you I'm just saying like for the most part 90% of it I would love to because we have a lot of contact with a lot of business owners places people that are doing things in those communities. Correct. You know what I mean like that's where our main reach is in terms of coming in contact with the community. Yeah and I like that it's just important to put the highlight on those things.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah. And one of the things that I definitely want to get away from this year um is or this season is talking about national politics. I think we need to get back to groundroot politics so you'll be hearing more about that which is um and and just in thinking about keeping everything local uh or not everything local but keeping it I also um am really passionate about doing an old timer segment where we get some folks that are like that would be fun to do here's the thing is we could wouldn't do we could do it start here in Johnstown.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah I'd love to hear an old timer from every city or all the places that we touch I'd love to hear the old timers perspective.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Because they know better than anybody.

Comedy Road Notes And Venue Shoutouts

SPEAKER_02 23:59

We want all the stories we want to hear what it felt like back in the day what you were eating who was coming Around. Like in back in the 50s, 60s, there were like celebrities among us. They would just show up and like when they were in town for a show, they would just camp at their friend's house that they met through another show. And right, that's how it all the world worked, right? Before all of this, who nanny. So I'm excited for the old timer segment. We've got a couple guys that are we got some old timers. We've got some old timers. We've got a few. And we've got some not so old timers who still have some old timer stories, which would be fine. It's gonna be real interesting to see what um this season holds, but I'm so excited for it.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Yeah, no, that'll be good. Well, the going back to that with the old timers, some of that is stories. Some of the old timers they got too old. They they're no timers now. So you have to get the stories passed down to people like Frank.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Um that's a good one although he's approaching old timer here real soon. But Madison's story I'm busting his balls. That's all.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Yeah, we're gonna talk about that because there's something in the water here in John Catholic keeping us all way younger looking than we need to be.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

We'll get to that when we get to old Frankie boy there. But yeah, but um, yeah, that's where we're at now with the podcast. That's how it's gonna be moving forward. Um what do we what what else you got there?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Well, I mean, we haven't been on the air since what October. So, or maybe even September. I don't even remember.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

No, it was way later than that.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

But it's been a while. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

It's been probably like four months.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Yeah. So just catching up real quickly on what we've been doing, of course, Scott has been doing comedy and food.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

And more comedy and more food.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Um, but let's uh let's not get too into it. Let's just highlight a couple of things. Some big special things that we're happy. Uh big thing. Shout out that we were just talking about Frank. Frank, all the wrong move productions. Uh the show that we did Valentine's Day out at the Alley Sports Bar in Central City. Shout out the alley. We've been back since.

SPEAKER_05 26:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

It's a great spot. Get out there and check it out if you've never been out there. Um the show that they put on, I mean, 200 people, audience members, everybody crushed.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Everybody crushed. It was like those people were they were lit and they were laughing, and it was a great time. But uh, thanks to all those people that were involved with that, that was great. Kat, shout out Kat. Yes, because she's always the one that yeah, Nate. Yeah, good, good thinking.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

The new so the guy so the alley was just under new ownership in June of 25, and this guy is looking at doing more stuff.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

I think they were two guys.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Or these guys, but yeah, so so excited. That place is flipping awesome.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

It's an old bowling alley.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

It's got skee ball and I skill machines and food and drinks, and they got horseshoe pits outside. They got it's a big place, too. They got gigantic go out there, take the family, go out there, it's a good time.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Uh because they got plenty for the kids to do down in the little thing.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Yeah, they're it's like a it's like a mini arcade, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Yeah. So and you can play the big adult machines while your kids are playing machines. It's fun.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

PA skills. Um Yeah, so that place was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

We did some sh what let's see. Uh of course I mean State Comedy. All the usual suspect, state comedy, comedy farm, um, all those guys have, you know, we've been doing that. You know what I mean? That's old hat. We've talked about them before, but shout out to those guys. We love them too. Um, and we got lots more stuff coming up with all everybody.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Scott's been doing that. Scott and Mike out at Gamble Mills. That mic is just we we can't keep we can't stop talking about it because of the ambiance.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

I was just talking to somebody about it the other day. It's my favorite place.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Absolutely. Scott Kelly and I were talking about the other.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

I think that might have been who I was talking about.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

And we were talking about it really, somebody said it, and I don't remember who said it, but it feels like a set of unplugged.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yeah, it does. It f it's very personal. It has something to do with the couches, the fireplace, the rocks, the wood. All of it. You know what I mean? It's a whole vibe. Yeah, it is. It's very good. We can't never ever sing their praises enough. Um, of course, you know, all the usual places Arts Altuna, McGarvey's, all those great places. If we miss you, we're not missing you on purpose.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Exactly.

Upcoming Shows And Crowd Work Heroes

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Um when it talks about those things. But as far as like stuff, I am gonna mention this though. Um so what I was gonna say was so two things specifically. Um one, we did a really cool show in New York.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Um that was a great room, by the way. I love every comedy room for a different reason. Um the kid from New York. They brought he brought like everybody that he worked with.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah, I don't know their names, but they were all good. That was a whiskey sale in New York City.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yeah, the host was really good.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Um but yeah, no, it was a fun show. But uh what we really want to talk about too, then is so coming up though, we're just talking about since we talked about what we've done, um, we will come back to New York City with food in just one second, but I don't want to talk about that with the comedy, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 29:34

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Um but coming up, so we did do I did a mic last night. Now I'm on a show Thursday, opening up for the one and only my brother from another mother, Earl David Reed. Um, we did a show with them at State College. It's just funny because he's black and I'm white, obviously, but we do share a last name. So it's fun to talk about that and make it seem like, you know, there's some relation there.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

He's so good, dude.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Like his crowd work the guy's a mac dude. He's he's the best crowd, he's as good a crowd worker as you're gonna see. He's as good as a Matt Reif, Big J Okerson. Um I'm just thinking of crowd workers here.

SPEAKER_05 30:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

He's as good as any of those guys, those guys, like in terms of just that's his whole thing, that's what he does. He's very, very good at it.

SPEAKER_05 30:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Um, a very old-time comedian, as Earl says in his bio. Who was it? Who said it? One of those old comedians, like um said he works the room like a Las Vegas showgirl or something.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Oh, it was Don Rickles. Don Rickles, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Don Rickles said that about him. So if Don Rickles gives you an approval as a comedian, you're doing something right.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yeah, he's so good, dude. I'm I can't wait for that show.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Yeah, that's gonna be a lot of fun. And the other people, I mean, you got Puma and uh Ridge, of course, and Adam. That'll all be it's gonna be a fun time.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

It is gonna be a fun time. And shout out to McGarvey's.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Oh, yeah, we want to talk about this.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

McGarvey's I love McGarvey's. It's one of my favorite bars that I've been to, period. I tell you this all the time. I love any place, it's just it's like the food's good, it's cheap, the beer's good, it's cheap. Like it's you're not gonna you're not going to You don't have to worry about what you look like or how how you're and I'm not saying that it's a dump. It's just a regular, it's an everyman's bar.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

It's a dive bar.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

But it's an everyman's bar.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

It's an everyman's bar.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

But that's but but that's what a dive bar is. A dive bar is an everyman's bar. I'm just saying, you don't go there for the frills. You go there because it's good and it's efficient. It's like liquor.

SPEAKER_05 31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

You know what I mean? You don't waste time. You just get down to business. You get some drinks, you get some food, place. You have a good time. Talk to people. Bullshit.

SPEAKER_05 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

But they have a great stage there. And we've said this before. They have a great stage there, but they made some like personal changes to it to like give it some ambiance.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

It's and they got the loft upstairs with a private bar.

New York Food And Hoboken Surprise

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Yeah, they're gonna have the VIP um section for the next show, I believe. Um I just saw that Andreas R. Rourke's gonna be out there, Meg.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Yeah, I know. I love that kid.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

He's another good crowd worker, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Yeah, but he has like more I wouldn't call him a crowd worker.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

No, he can he work the crowd? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yes. But that's different.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

But he also has He's a comedian.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Yeah, yes. Can he work the crowd? That's the difference. You don't call somebody that's a crowd worker somebody that specifically does that. Just because you can work the crowd and do that doesn't mean you're necessarily a crowd worker. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

I would say. But I but I've witnessed him being amazing.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Oh, he was very well, yeah, yeah. He's very good at it. It was very uh I like his stuff too.

SPEAKER_05 32:54

I love his material, that's why I'm saying absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

I uh yeah, but that that no, that'll be fun. I just saw that today, so I'm excited that he's gonna be coming out to out to you, huh? Um where were we going with that? Food in New York?

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Yeah. So you did this show in New York. We left New York. Well, food in New York.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

I mean, No, the peat we had a great, some great pizza in Hoboken, New Jersey, some great views. We'll be going back there.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yeah. I mean, we didn't spend a lot of time eating in New York. We were there for a while.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

I had some Chinese food.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Delivered. Oh, we had some good calamari. Yeah, that calamarian.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

That bar was cool. That bar was cool. That was one of my more f that was a cool bar.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Yeah, I'll tag in the bar. I'll tag them in the bio because I don't remember. And the bartender was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Yeah, everybody there was very nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

The my drinks were a little strong, but the uh whatever.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

I mean for me. But the uh no, the calamari, that was good calamari. We eat calamari a lot, and that was good calamari.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Yeah, it was. Um so yeah, but um then so next day we had breakfast at the hotel uh restaurant, and that was decent. Um and then we rolled on down to Hoboken. We got well, where did we get coffee at? Oh, we got coffee in Brooklyn.

Building A Pizza Review Tour

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Oh yeah, we went to Brooklyn for coffee. We went and got some bakery stuff over there, then we went uh then we were like headed home, so we stopped for pizza there and hoboken and discovered what a wonderful little town that is.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Beautiful. Like the little walk there, the river walk thingy.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

I don't know what I grew up thinking about New Jersey.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

They lied to you because I was talking to Ridge about that last night. He said they lied to us. And that New Yorkers always I think New Yorkers always talk shit on Jersey to try to keep people from like going over there. It's a hundred percent better.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Way better.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

You get like all the benefits of like being right there, but like you're not right. Right there.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Yeah, and so much cleaner, pretty, like. Yeah, it was very nice.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

People I yeah, I I think Jersey gets a bad rap sometimes. I mean, I'm sure, of course, people are like, oh, go to this neighborhood. Go I I get that. I'm not saying that everywhere is nice and all this. I was led to believe the whole thing was that way.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

And it's clearly not. That's all I'm saying. That's end of story.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

End of story. Um and we've got recommendations. So now, um, so I did post about that on TikTok, and now like we're going to have a whole tour based off of pizza spot.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

If any, yeah, tell me your town and tell me your pizza, and I'm gonna come there and I'm gonna eat it and get I'm gonna start doing this because here's the thing is people want good, honest reviews. And I know that Dave Portnoy already does. I'm not trying to be Dave Portnoy. I love fucking pizza, and I'm eat more pizza than most people ever should. Sometimes I eat it multiple times a day.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Different styles.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Different styles of pizza.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Because there's the Tortinos always in the freezer.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Right, that's what I'm saying. Like, I enjoy pizza, even at its most fundamental level, totinas. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Like, other people don't like cardboard and ketchup and scotch and things.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

It's good, but it's good in its own right. So I feel like I have a better perspective on pizza than most people because I just eat it so damn much. And the thing of the matter is name your town, name your pizza, tell me where you think it ranks, and I'll come try it out, and we'll give an honest opinion. Yeah. We'll give an I'm always I'm still searching for the best pizza I ever ate.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

That's what I say.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

So and so we've got another name in New Jersey. I'm not gonna name any of these right now. Yeah, we'll get to it. We got another name in New Jersey. We got a hit on New Haven, Connecticut. We've got um I've got a friend in Detroit who wants us to come out and do comedy, so we could she'll tell us where.

Hobby Hop Sourdough Crochet Audiobooks

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Here's my thing. Let me quantify let me qualify this for the pizza thing. There's I follow every pizza group that's out there. I know all about it. I see all the places that are trendy. Right. The so-called places that are not the big names, but also everybody knows about them as being like the best. I want to know the super secret. The ones that are so good that you don't even tell your friends about it because you don't want it to get busy.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

That's the ones I want to know about them. I want you to share, and I promise I won't tell a single soul about it. I'll disguise it in any way that I can, but I just want to try the pizza and I'll review it, and you I'll leave the mystery up to people to figure out where it is on their own or something. I'm just saying, if you don't want me to shout it out, I won't.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

But I want to try the pizza, so let me know. Email us, text us, phone us, hunt us down, knock on my front door, do whatever you have to do.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Um, so real quickly, before we get into the main portion of the show, um, what I've been doing since we've been off for the last couple of months, I've been on a hobby hop. I'm not even gonna lie. I'm ADHD. There's a thing that goes with this, it's called hyperfixation, where you'll fixate on food or a hobby or a craft and do it. Um, so I'm trying to balance not spending too much money on crafts and hobbies. So when the last I talked to you guys, I was on a sourdough journey. I'm here to tell you fuck sourdough.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Fuck sourdough.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

There's no reason.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

No one needs it.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Nobody needs it. It's unnecessary.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

And you if you do want it, there's a million people out there making it.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Yeah, somebody's making it. I'm not gonna lie, like my sourdough starter is good. It didn't turn out bad. It wasn't a flop.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

It's not a taste thing. No, it's too much work. Here's the thing is and I like it's the same reason I'm not making other kinds of bread, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Because somebody else is making it functional.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

It's just easier. This is one of those things that I don't want to take the time. And to me, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

That's exactly it. And so I found a happy medium with that whole journey, and I did buy a bread maker. It was inexpensive. It was like 70 bucks on the TikTok shop. And I've made a couple loaves of bread and they're D's. Like I'm not worried about it.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

And if that's your thing, awesome. Have at it. If that brings you joy, keep on making it. Because I'll keep on eating it. Right. I'm just saying for me as a practice, that's not yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

That's too much like that's too much remote.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

I like cooking, but I also don't like having a fridge full of jars and science. You can only eat so much bread.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Right, exactly. So that journey's over. I did pick up crocheting in the meantime.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Which I love. You not only did you pick up crocheting, let me say this. She taught herself to crochet. She's Jimi Hendrix out here, buddy. Because let me tell you what, crocheting ain't easy. That's one of the pimping and crocheting, they're the two things.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

It's actually very easy. I don't know. It's easy for me.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

But I'm saying it may be easy for you, but my point being is you figured it out like on a very fundamental level. Most people have to have someone show them. You were just like, you learned it in like the most rudimentary way because you did it with like big giant loops.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

And it was like almost like if you had like king-sized Legos or something.

SPEAKER_05 40:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

So you figured it out on a grander scale, and then that allowed you to shrink it down to the level of, you know, with the Yeah, the lower.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Yeah, absolutely. And it's fun. And I whipped out a couple cute little uh crocheted little plushy things. So that is definitely a thing for me. That is sticking around. Um, I do have to get different yarn. So I started with the um, I started with like fluffy patterned, fluffy, like it's uh, I forget what is the chanel. And that's actually so not only did I teach myself how to crochet, but then I started with the hardest yarn to work with.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Like a dummy, because that's just how I teach myself things. So and now that's it. It doesn't matter how you learn. Right, exactly. But now that I know the fundamentals, um, there's a lot of different things that I'm working on. I got some prototypes. Um, it could definitely become a vendor craft for me easily. Um, in the winter months when I'm feeling like I just need to move and do something that'll be good for me to just whip up things in the winter time when I want to just not be on socials as much, you know, stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Yeah, I mean it it's something it's good to have something to do.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

And the other thing that I did was so I did break down. I don't read anymore. Um, I can't. There's and I've talked to Chappie about this extensively because when I was younger, that's all I did was read. I was the most voracious reader. I would into my early 30s, I could read a book in a day if I wanted to. Like that's just how I was.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

But any book, any book, the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Um, but so that but that's just for me and where my brain lives now and with technology available, yeah. It's just not the space. I don't need to escape like I did when I was 10. Right. You know what I mean? I I don't have anything to escape from. So I did download uh Bunny XO's audiobook. Um, I think it's called like Unstripped or something, or stripped down, or I don't even know. But it was, I mean, it was good. It was, it was everything I expected her to say. Like there were no major surprises at all. She very much is open about who she is, has always been. Right. There was no like juicy secrets in there. Um, but here's the thing for me, like my key takeaway is that I noticed like people commenting on her stuff, like, oh my God, I can't believe that you lived through that. You're so strong. And I don't disagree. But I also don't like I didn't live it to the extreme that she lived it. Right, right, right. But I've I've lived a lifestyle that would be similar in.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Some people are shocked by anything. I mean, but that's the thing though. That's what makes it different strokes for different folks. That's what makes some of this stuff interesting.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

That's exactly it's about perspective. But if you have some of that, it's not as interesting.

The Billboard That Started True Crime

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Right. And I'm not saying the book wasn't interesting by all means. Right. If you like her, then it was definitely it got me. I I cleaned a whole basement listening to it. So it was it was good. Um, but again, like I'm just not into that kind of stuff. Right. Yeah. The the good the beauty of it though was that she narrated it. So that was that was nice too. Because her voice is nice.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

I mean, I love a good audiobook, it's all about the voice.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

And she was actually the one that inspired me to come into the podcast world with a different name. Um, so thanks a lot for that. Thanks. So, speaking of, I you know, I love a good synchronicity, right? So uh full circle because I listened to Bunny's book, or yeah, I listened to Bunny's audiobook. She's the one that inspired me to even want to do a book.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Jelly Robot RKO and SmackDown. It was a real full circle.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Oh my god, how gorgeous is he? But regardless, but anyways, regardless of all that, um, podcasting in general is kind of the theme of the show. We've talked about how the podcast changed. Um, Bunny inspired us to do or inspired me to do the podcast. But one of the very first okay. One of the very first experiences we had in podcasting was because we were in the outer banks, and we've talked about this before in some of our true crime episodes, but um we were in the outer banks and we saw an episode on a billboard.

Patty Roar And A Split Narrative

SPEAKER_01 44:46

The billboard to change my life. And I say that because it was the first time that I ever like it was to be honest, and I mean I've always had a interest in like true crime to an extent, but like it was oh, so the first I was like, what am I listening to? I wanted to stay there forever and be it took me back to a time it painted the picture so well, and because we were like there, yes, it added something to it, and we this it was just magical. And counterclock, yes, Dilio D'Ambra, yes, my favorite podcast, still to this day, there will never to me, some people are like, oh, like some of the greatest podcasts. No, my favorite podcast that I've ever listened to, and I've listened to the other seasons, but seasons one and two of Counterclock, I even like season three though, too. This the one the family murder that one's good too. But seasons one and two of Counterclock are hands down my all time favorite podcast. It's my favorite cases, it's my favorite true crime thing, and it is just the best. And we're talking about this because this was like the first podcast that we discovered that we really fell in love with.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

And it was because of a billboard.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

And it was because of a billboard while we were somewhere else. We were in the Outer Banks at the time. We saw this billboard, we fell in love with it. Fast forward eight years later or something like that, we were coming back from New York City yesterday, driving through Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania. Somewhere in there, I don't know exactly where we were. But we saw a billboard for a case, and it was for what's her name?

SPEAKER_02 46:46

It said, Is Patty Roar guilty?

SPEAKER_01 46:52

And it was from an organization called JudgesforJustice.org. Yes. I mean, that's their website. It's called Judges for Justice. The website is judgesforjustice.org.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

And if Oh, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

No, I was gonna say, which is a group of judges, and I'm not sure if it's entirely judges, but all people from the legal profession, but it's judges that head up this group, former judges or maybe current, I don't know the exact logistics. Some legal professionals that have formed this to like help uh exonerate people that have been involved in you know wrongly accused murders or what and I don't know the full extent, but this particular case, it's a woman accused of murder. And we've seen cases like this before where all you gotta do is there's 30 seasons of dateline about how cops, district attorneys, states attorneys, rig trials, plant evidence to FBI. Dude, there is so much corruption going on. And you can sit here, you can you can tell me I'm being hyperbolic, but you don't know. Like I said, there's 30 seasons of dateline of time and time again, of not just accusations, because I understand that's one thing. These are proven things, and it's called um what is the thing that the judge kept referring to when people in positions they the end justifies the means. It's called goodwill corruption or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Yeah, that's what this guy touches on in the episode that we listened to.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

People think they're doing a prosecutor, a cop thinks they're doing the right thing because they think they know for a fact that this person did it. So they it's not that they necessarily plant evidence, but they fudge a record, they overlook something, something goes missing. And it turns out then years later, DNA evidence or whatever, other exculpatory evidence proves that these people did. I mean, there's whole organization. I'm not bringing this isn't news to anyone. There's whole organizations that do this. Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

We're not here to comment on the science or the legality or the technology.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

What this actually boils down to is so we saw the billboard.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

And another billboard.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

We were like, okay, we have four and a half, five hours till we're getting home. Let's see what is out there. This specific case, um, the the the victim, the victims were Joanne Kliniac, I think is how you say it. And Alex. Let me see.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Her child.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

And her son. Um, yeah, and he was only, oh, Katrinak or Katrinak or Catinak. Katrinak, that's what it is. So it's Joanne and Alex Katrinak. Um, I think Joanne was in her 20s and Alex was four months old, and this again was in Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania. It was in Catasakwa or something like that, Catasakwa Valley.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Casasakwa.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Cassadake.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Because they called it Cassie for short.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Caddy.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

I thought that was Cassie.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Caddy. But, anyways, um, so there so I just asked Chappie. I was like, give me the details on this. So Chappie pointed us to a couple different podcasts, and I picked one that was filmed in 2023. Um, and it's a podcast called Criminal Discourse because I was looking for something that just summarized the case, right? So um so criminal discourse, I mean, I'm all about production value. They had nice voices, it was well produced, it was well put together. And when I tell you that these women presented an open and shut case, when I walked away from that hour episode of criminal discourse, you could not tell me that uh this Roar lady wasn't guilty.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Right, absolutely. And that was the point of it is it was all in how they framed it. They just went with basically what the police had to say and took them at their face value and were like, oh, they did this, it was kicked out on appeal, yaddy. But this is multi but then we listened to the judges. Our question was there's no way that these judges associated themselves with a case and were fighting so hard that they're taking out billboards and everything else if there isn't something to go off of.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Correct. Like, why would they put themselves out there like that? Right. And so, you know, logical discernment kicks in because how many people out there believe that they've been wrongfully convicted? Right. And how many i organizations like this exist? You would think that there's more than there are, but the ones who do exist, I mean, they're pulling as many resources, grants, funding as they can to like And there's not enough resources. And they have to reinvestigate the case, then they have to get the judge to reopen the case or turn over or consider an appeal. So it's such there's no way that an organization is gonna raise uh like waste that amount of time, effort, resources. Right if there wasn't some plausibility in the wrongful conviction, right? So we were like, okay, let's just go to the source, the horse's mouth, and we listened to um the episode. We so we there's eight episodes of on the if you go to the judgesforjustice.org website, it links out to YouTube episodes that cover the entire case. We wanted to jump to the cliff notes, so we went straight into episode eight, which not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

I wish I would have gone back and listened to the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Same Z.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Because I wanted to they give you like the highlights, but I'm like, I want to know more about this. I want to hear the details on this.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Right. And I want to get into the weeds, and so in in episode eight, the the gentleman, and I don't know his name, but in episode eight, the gentleman is tying up the case, and he's giving you the reasons why they are trying to get it reopened, essentially. Whoa, Jesus age.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Oh my god, people, I almost died. I almost slipped. Don't run around in socks in your kitchen floor. And this goes back. I'll show I'm gonna show you our viewers can't see it. Our viewers, the listeners can't see it. Um, if they were viewers, they would be able to. Um this can you can you see that scar?

SPEAKER_02 54:00

Yes, I see that scar. I've been looking at that scar for 17 years.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

So what happened was I was running around in socks. I was about this happened on Franklin Street, and we had a tile kitchen floor, but there was the so then there was the living room, and that was carpeted, but then there was like when you walked into the entryway, that was wood floor. Yeah. For like a little you know, like I whatever you call that.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

Vestib. It's like a square.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

No, it wasn't though. It was almost like a separate room.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

It had like a little dining area. That's where we had the dining room table. And then like, but when you walked in, it was just we'll just call it the dining room with the wood floor, and I come running through there, and we had like, you know, little things in between each. And I come running through there the one day on the wood floor in my socks. And let me tell you, I I mean, that was like seven, eight stitches there from just fucking baggage slipping and just smacking my face off the floor.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Oh my gosh. You need more collagen in your diet. You have bad, you scar bad.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

No, I I don't break bones. I've fallen and I don't break bones. But um, yeah, don't wear socks around the house. That's bad for you. Get a get your get yourself This is not an ad read.

SPEAKER_02 55:15

It is not an ad read, but it should be.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

It should be. Get yourself a pair. Uh what are they even called? What's the company? I can't remember. Cloud Dream or Dream. No. Cloud Nine. Is that what it is? Cloud Nine? I gotta look it up. Hold on. Because I want to get it right, because Yeah, it is. Cloud Nine. Sheepskin moccasins. Go get yourself a pair. Let me tell you what, we each got one. And it is sheepskin. I'm gonna here's my I'm gonna sheepskin has been used for footwear for we found pyramids with sheepskin shoes in them. The Romans were wearing sheepskin has been known because of its natural abilities to like keep out stuff, but also allow it to breathe. It like has very natural magical properties for sheepskin.

How Framing Warps The Truth

SPEAKER_02 56:12

So, anyways, yes, cloud nine. And let me just tell you too that um I have sensory issues, and I cannot wear anything but pure 100% cotton socks on my feet, else they get really weird and slimy. And um, I can wear sheepskin moccasins without socks, and they just feel amazing. Like, and it's not, it's it's they don't get like I don't get sweating.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Even the woo or whatever it is inside is like nice and it doesn't get hot. You don't get sweat. No, it's amazing. Get yourself a pair. Sheepskin Cloud Nine is the company, sheepskin moccasins. They make but they got everything sheepskin, kind of like that place we've seen on the highway. What was it? Garrett's Garrett's Sheepskin Emborium in Diraffe House.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

I don't know. But anyways, back to true crime. So don't fall. I don't want you to hurt me. Um, so back to true crime. So what we are so essentially what we're getting at here is that so when the criminal discourse episode was presenting the evidence, and here's the thing is I don't want to knock any podcast. Like I said, it was a well-produced podcast.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

Yeah, it was fun.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

2023, the Judges for Justice was already working on Patty Roh's case. It's already well known, but the way that they framed it up a little bit really pissed me off.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

It was the way that they said things.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

And it was the way to be definitively true when there's definitely evidence to the contrary, or the way that they framed things up to make you believe something that wasn't true. Like key example was they said that there were three long hairs taken from the car. Well, the way that they described it, they were saying, Oh, you didn't have long hair back in the in the 90s unless you were in a hairband. The actual hairs were five inches. Five inches long. That's not long. And if you look at the other people who potentially could have been suspects, they had five inches had full of hair.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

But more importantly, and these girls didn't deep dive the evidence though, but what they did do is just accept the face value story that have been given by the police and the media and the uh jet like the court the court.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

Right. The generally accepted outline of what happened.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

But the problem is that when it presented with when breaking each of those things down individually, you see that things are not as what they were presented to be. And I'm gonna give you another example of this that I just came across today. A lot of news, people talking about the Charlie Kirk bullet. They said that they could not match the bullet that was taken from Charlie Kirk out of Charlie Kirk. They could not match it to the gun that they arrested Tyler Robinson with. And everybody's like, oh, if the if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. Suddenly these people are using OJ line. Like, you think OJ didn't do it? What are you talking about? Right. That doesn't even make any sense. You're setting that up in an argument. I saw that comment so much, it's almost the antithesis of what you're trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Like you're saying that he's guilty, but there's like it's a frame-up job.

SPEAKER_02 59:42

I love when friends ex experts come out on Twitter.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Oh, I know. But here's my thing, though. If you read the article, which I did immediately because I knew the way that the headline read did not match, the bullet fragments that they were testing were too far gone to make any conclusive result. They couldn't say one way or the other. Right. They couldn't match, nor could they not match it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

It was inconclusive. It was not that they didn't match it, it's that they couldn't match it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

And but but look at the way that people frame that up, though. All all you saw all day is Candace is right. Exactly. The bullet didn't match. This is going into the thing, and that's not at all what was even said. First off, and second, this is the defense making this like argument that this is they're the ones that are presenting all the oh, we got this evidence that says these things. But what they're also not saying is they have like DNA evidence like on the gun showcasings, various things. Regardless, I'm not going to get into the case, I don't want to. But the point being is it's a misrepresentation of what the facts actually are. Right. It's a characterization that isn't true.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

Right. And it's spin. It's total. It's spin. And it's just it's it's detrimental to the case. It's detrimental to the truth.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

But that's exactly what happened in this case. Right. As well. That Charlie Kirk thing was just a side note to illustrate how it's happens in everyday life.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

All the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

But in this case, in particular, it's almost as if because here's the thing is if you're gonna frame it that way, I think you have a responsibility to make it if you're gonna frame it that way, you should just say, This is the official police report. This is the official like I'm not taking aside what this is what they're saying. You you can just leave it at that. You don't have to dismiss, which is what I felt that they did, they did a lot of the things that the defense, they're like, oh, this lady did it, but they found her DNA. Well, yeah, but come to find out the DNA was like swapped out. Swapped out. Like if you and and I mean this in obviously this isn't a radical opinion because these judges have laid out this case like lawyers that they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:03

It's pristine.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

That they they are that there is no way, like the things that were said, like there was definite things, a definite neglect of duty.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

And there was a definite, uh, we're not gonna they and they are very careful not to say a blatant like fixing of the case. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:22

They're not saying corruption, but they're saying that the chain of evidence shows that it would have had to been swapped out because otherwise they wouldn't have gotten the result.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

What was the Lehigh Valley District Attorney's name? Because I want to make sure I give him a big fuck you, Jim McNally or some bullshit like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:36

Martin, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

Uh let's look it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

And so the and shout out, oh gosh, I wish I'm so horrible at this. But the the guy who narrates the the episodes.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

Oh, he's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

He's hilarious because um, let me just tell you, he is a troll in the truest art form. Troll.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

Fuck Jim Martin.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

Fuck Jim Martin.

When Case Closing Beats Truth

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

That's why I just want to say it. Fuck you, Jim Martin, district attorney for whatever, because you're all these people worked for you, all these people knew, and it was your connections that set this whole misrepresentation of justice in motion. And the fact that they just can't come back, this is what bothers me is none of them are ever willing on all these cases that we watched where that's proven beyond of a fact of a doubt that the cops lied, didn't handle evidence properly, did all the things wrong. It's been proven time and time again in a lot of these cases. What do they never do? They never go out of their way to correct the mistake. No. They never, they double down on the lie and try to hide it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:44

Because think about the domino effects.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:45

Well, because it unloads everything they've ever done in their career.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

Everything. Uh yeah. It yeah, it opens other cases. I mean, it's but somebody's gonna have to rip the band-aid off of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

Well, that's exactly there has to be a reckoning at some point. But that's the problem with a lot of this, is and we could go down this rabbit hole too, because we say this all the time because we see it on these true crime things. When you follow true crime, you know that the real power lies in the hands of the district attorney and the state's attorney, and they're the ones that are behind a lot of this. And the pressure to close cases, those are political appointments, it all gets passed down to the cops, these people are all connected.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

And that's what he talks about in depth in that episode is like the framing, it becomes a public concern. You want to appease the public and let them know that there's safety in their communities. And so you have to have a suspect in a closed case. And they're going, they don't care about the truth. They care about a suspect and a closed case.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:43

Right. It's kind of like we say at work, like when you're talking about like a person that's on the front line of the business that you're in, do you think they care about like the overall mission of no, they're there to meet their numbers. Right. And that's all they care about, and that's all it ends up becoming. And I'm not saying this is across the board, but it happens way more than it should. But the thing, what it becomes is it becomes a numbers game. Instead of being interested in the truth, like you said, they become interested in closing the case. That's a good thing. Or interested in a figure. Right. Number, a figure, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

And we've seen those ghost metrics derive improper behaviors, improper outcomes, and without even disclosing when, where, why, or how. It happens everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

And what we're saying is not even controversial.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:31

No, it's not. Well, I so I worked in the mortgage industry before I worked in healthcare. And e and in the mortgage and industry it was happening. Those guys wanted to make their sales quotas, so they were closing fraudulent loans, and some of them were prosecuted for it. They were setting up loans that people didn't agree to the terms to or didn't understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

But even if you go be and I think that's more criminal than what a lot of but uh the a lot of this I don't even think is criminal in the sense of like, not just with these cases, it's different. But it includes that is that people because the wrong things are rewarded in the system, you get the wrong outcomes.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

And because the it's incentivized to produce certain outcomes, the outcomes become skewed just by nature in and of itself. That's a systems thing across the board. That applies to anything in life.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:27

That's going to happen. Right. When you incentivize the wrong things, you're gonna get the wrong results. And even if you meant to or not, some of it's intentional, some of it's not.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

Right. Well, and that's what the kind of they the so the guy calls them tools in the episode, but there's like five like key points that in order to reopen a case, you must meet one of the five things. And whatever those five things are, I don't remember them. This case meets four of them. And one of them is like, it's it's not like again, the intent is neither here nor there behind what happened. Whether or not the police intended to neglect or malpractice or whatever they did, it doesn't, it doesn't matter about the intent. It just is what it is. It happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

It doesn't matter if you did it criminally or it was an oversight that happened. It doesn't matter about the case.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:17

For example, for example, one of the key ones that really turned my mind around was the way that the the women in criminal discourse framed up that one witness who on the day of Joanne's disappearance went to the cops that day and said he are gunshots near her residence. That they 15 times in the statement misspelled his name, handed it to the defense, and said, Oops, it's your fault you didn't figure out who he was.

Missing Evidence And Chain Of Custody

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

I've seen those tactics on Matlock. They used it last week. Yes, like exactly. You know what I'm saying? Like these are basic, they're so well known tricks that they're making it, they're putting it in TV criminals.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

Made up shows. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

And um so in that case, like this that's whatever. It's withholding exculpatory evidence. Or what is it? Whether or not it was intentional that the fucking state trooper was an idiot and couldn't take down somebody's name off their fucking driver's license.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:24

But then we find out later, too, though, that makes it seem intentional. You find out other things where they purpose like He destroyed He destroyed the report. Yeah. So that's undeniable. Right, right. So much so, and we know this is true because he wouldn't even name him on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:43

That's exactly what he's doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:43

I mean, he wouldn't even put his name out there. It's criminal, yeah. It's criminal. He's gonna get charged.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:49

Right. So, and so they're asking for two things to happen. One is for the case to be re-examined with the DNA evidence that was never presented. There was a cigarette butt at the scene of the where the bodies were found that was never tested. There was a fingernail in um in Joanne's chest that was never presented for DNA. And there was a hair in her hand that was never presented for DNA.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:15

And that so the DNA tests that they did originally, the the things that they did, the hairs that they did do the DNA test on, originally those hairs they said they didn't contain roots to have DNA. Then magically, all of a sudden, a couple years later, they were viable, testable. And it we're not talking a difference in technology here, though. The people, scientific people that saw them at the lab even reported them being different colors and mismatch. There's a right. There's more than just smoke, there's a little fire going.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:48

And not only that, but the original three hair samples that were taken from the car, there's a letter and a chain of custody that says that the FBI are returning these three samples back to the Pennsylvania State Police, but yet somehow they got back to the FBI for retesting three years later, and there is no chain of custody getting them checked in at the Pennsylvania State Police. So they weren't rechecked back in once they arrived back, sent by uh whatever, signature mail or whatever. And when no ask, no chain of submission asking for the retesting back to the FBI, but yet somehow the FBI got three hair samples that they had sent back to PSP with no paperwork in between.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:37

Exactly. And I don't want to go into the whole case, we just laid it out. I don't know, but that's but go check it out for yourself. But our point is with this is that it has to do with how it's presented.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:49

That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:51

It's about semantics, it's about the way things are framed, the way you can be portrayed or understood or understand something based on the person that's telling you the information.

Wheel Of Wisdom And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

I've done that in socials so many times. I was just talking about it with my friends this week because um I have um been talking more often to a group of creators who, when I first came on the app, I referred to them as the mean girls. Because the the way that they were portrayed in my feed was that they were mean girls. I mean, and there was and I judged them and I held them in a certain light and I believed things, and I never deep dived it. But what that tell what I'm getting at with all of that is that and it's why we don't we decided not to do a true crime podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:44

It's where the story, it's where the phrase, don't judge a book by its cover comes from.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:49

That's absolutely it. That's it's a tale as old as time. And we opted out of doing true crime crime exclusively. And we talked about doing true crime because it is one of our passions, and we are probably more equipped than most people to talk about. To discern. To discern.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:07

Yeah. But I'm just saying that would be extreme.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

But No, but I mean everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

You know what I'm saying? Like every it's very, very in today's day and age, you should always question the narrative, regardless of what it is and who's telling you and why they're telling you and where they're telling you.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:24

Question us. Question us. Oh, speaking of the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:26

Yeah, don't even believe me. They'll take my word for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:29

So we are gonna close this on a little fun note. Um uh we are going to do a segment every week just to fill some time. And because Scott's so good at it, we are going to do a wheel of wisdom. So we are going to pick a topic using a randomizer, any topic, and Scott is gonna riff on it for two or three minutes. I mean, not gonna say I'm not gonna entertain.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:53

Well, I'm just gonna take, they give me 15 random topics. If you can instantly master any skill, what would it be? And I think the answer would be karate, because I'd just be going around chopping motherfuckers, just you know what I mean, just whooping ass everywhere. All the anybody that tries to What was your least favorite subject in school? My l music. Mine was hated music class, dude. That was the worst. And it's not that I love music, but the music they teach you in music class, buddy, that's some shitty fucking music. They're like, here's a song from 1910 written by fucking Johann von Gutenberg. Johann von Gutenberg and his wife.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:39

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

It's called How Many Potatoes Do You Want for Dinner? Should we have a four-day work week? No, we should have a one-day work week. What's the worst movie you've seen recently? Hmm, that's a tough one. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

Daddy and them.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:01

Daddy and M, that wasn't that bad. If you had to get rid of a holiday, what would the holiday be? And why? Um, the holiday that I would get rid of? Easter. I would get rid of Easter.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:18

Our Christian friends are gonna hate you for that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

Well, but I mean, uh but I would leave the religious holiday of Easter.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:27

Get rid of the commercialism of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:29

Get rid of the commercialism of it, but uh, here's where I want to move it. I want to combine it with Halloween, I've told you this. So you tr the the like, I don't know when we would have it, but somehow the idea of going around to collect eggs in a big thing rather than just candy out of a bowl. The Christian should be behind this because we'll get rid of the devil, take the Easter bunny out of Easter, leave Christ where it belongs.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:55

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:56

Combine the two for one super holiday called Halloween. Halloweaster, or what could it be or Easter ween or bunny ween or something. Bunny ween.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:11

That sounds weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:13

Bunny ween or the ween bunny. Oh no. No. But regardless of any of that, no. I just think that that should be that's my take is that we take the bunny out of Easter, the devil out of Halloween, combine the two for one holiday where kids go around dressed as rabbits to collect eggs in bags. We solved every we could eliminate the Halloween Well no, they wouldn't like that. Think about it though, you already got the candy. Easter and Halloween, candy comes in color-coded. You know what I mean? Like you take the pink and blue of Easter with the orange and black of Halloween, and you put it together and make like a green and orange.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:58

No, a hot pink and black. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

Or whatever, I'm just saying, but you put it together. I don't know what it would be. And the theme could be Jesus fights the devil.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:09

Oh my god. This is what happens when we give Scott a wheel of wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:13

Jesus could fight the devil. Churches could do those things where they do those plays, but this time Jesus is fighting the devil. We could have like stage cage matches between the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:23

So Jesus, Jesus rises from the dead, fights the devil, takes out two holidays.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

Takes out two holidays, and he's back home by Monday morning.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:36

Oh my God. Anyways, so that's it. Um, we are still gonna be coming back to you the first and the 15th of every single month. So we'll be back to you on April 15th. Um, in the meantime, I hope you missed us. Welcome back, welcome new listeners, and if Welcome. I love that song. And if nobody's told yens, stay trashy.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:03

Stay trashy. Question what you read. Leave that.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:10

On it highways midnight stand, land shotgun kicking out. With the first world, Mr. Lee's design.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:19

Who knows where we end up tonight? The beer eyes cold, and the music's good. Dumble dive bar out there in them woods. Catfire glow, every rudder's deployed. Already knows they're gonna live in the headfire pinnacles, go to the crystal joint, last. Hop on in friends. This is Gilded Trash.